Michael F. Shaughnessy
Senior Columnist EdNews.org
Eastern New Mexico University

Sylvia Rimm received her doctorate in Educational Psychology from the University of Wisconsin Madison. Her most well known books are See Jane Win: The Rimm Report on How 1,000 Girls became Successful Women ( New York : Crown Publishers,. 1999) How Jane Won : 55 Successful Women Share How they Grew From Ordinary Girls to Extraordinary Women (New York : Crown Publishers, 2001) See Jane Win for Girls, A Smarts Girls Guide to Success (Minneapolis: Free Spirit, 2003) Why Bright Kids Get Poor Grades and What You can do about it (New York, Crown Publishers, 1995) How to Parent So Children will Learn (New York : Crown Publishers 1996) and Education of the Gifted and Talented Fifth Edition- co-authored with Gary A. Davis (Needham Heights, Mass: Allyn and Bacon, 2003)

She has also authored tests for identifying creativity, interests and underachievement.

As a spokesperson for gifted children, Dr. Rimm has appeared on several talk shows including the Oprah Winfrey Show, ABC's 20/20. and NBC's Today show and was the host of Family Talk with Sylvia Rimm on public radio for many years.

She currently directs the Family Achievement Clinic in Cleveland, Ohio and is clinical professor of psychiatry and pediatrics at Case Western Reserve School of Medicine where she has taught courses in the principles of parenting and the psychology of the gifted.In this interview, she discusses parenting gifted children with high potential.

1) You recently published an article in Parenting for High Potential. Can you tell our readers a bit about that journal and its focus?

Parenting for High Potential is a publication of the National Association for Gifted Children specifically intended for parents of gifted children although I believe teachers would also find it helpful.  It's provided to all members of NAGC as well as to associate members.  Associate members only have to pay $25. and receive the magazine and website opportunities.  The website for the organization is www.nagc.org.  Some examples of articles in a recent issue include Selecting After-school Programs:  A Guide for Parents, The No Child Left Behind Law:  Is it Leaving Bright Children Behind? and my own article, when Overempowerment Yields Underachievement--Strategies to Adjust. 

2) Your article was about "overempowerment". What exactly do you mean by this?

Many children today have been given too much power and too many choices that don't fit with their maturity.  Parents have assumed that if they were given decision making power they would learn to make better decisions.  Instead it seems they have developed the habit of making all their own decisions and, too early, believe they should make all their own decisions.  They act like adolescents in early childhood and expect to be treated like adults in adolescence--without, of course, the responsibility that should match that power.  Many have an attitude of entitlement that makes it difficult to guide or teach them.

3) Tell us briefly about the V of LoVe"

The V of Love is a "common sense" description that fits well with more researched conceptions of good parenting and teaching.  Parents and teachers set the limiting walls of the V, but increase power, freedom, choices and responsibilities between the walls of the V as children develop and mature.  In that way development can feel relatively smooth to children as they feel gradually empowered.  Parents of gifted children can easily fall into the trap of over-empowering children because they sound so adult-like even in early childhood.  If they are over-empowered and can't make responsible choices, parents, too late try to take the power away they had given too early.  Relative to the power children had earlier, they feel disempowered and angry.  A good example is a fifth grade boy who said, "My parents won't listen to me.  My dad thinks I should be treated differently just because I'm a kid.  I want the same treatment as my parents." 

I have had many experiences with 5, 6 and 7 year olds expecting equal power with their parents and teachers.  It's fairly shocking.  Where is their humility?  Gone, I guess.

4) Some parents are so exasperated with the schools that they resort to "homeschooling". Is this a good thing or a bad thing?

There are some unique cases where I believe home-schooling, or at least partial home-schooling, is appropriate for profoundly gifted children.  However, if schools have gifted programming, I believe it's healthier for gifted children to learn in an environment of peers where they can interact with others in their thinking and activities.  They need to experience competition and collaboration and understand individual differences.  I don't mean only in sports and extracurricular activities, but also in the classroom.

5) Tell us a bit about "dethroned children".  Why should we study this group of kids?

Dethroned children have spent part of their time in a family and/or classroom where they received full attention, adoration, praise and power.  During that center of attention time they learned happily, appeared well adjusted and behaved beautifully.  Either because of new siblings in the family or because of challenges and competition in the classroom, attention is no longer centered on them alone.  Their feelings are of rejection and their persona changes gradually, but dramatically.  They become negative, aggressive or depressed and shut down to learning and positive interactions.

  Parents and teachers are mystified by the change and see them as attention seeking and difficult, yet recall how different they were before.

6) You indicate that some gifted children do not feel "understood". What do parents teachers and counselors need to understand about this?

Adults need to understand that their feelings are very real to them.  Relative to the attention they used to receive, they truly feel neglected and undervalued.  They no longer feel as intelligent or attractive or good as they felt earlier.  They don't understand what has gone wrong, nor do they know what to do about the problem.  A small amount of personal and private one-to-one positive attention can go a long way in helping giving them hope and can mobilize them again.  When they do well again, parents will often say they have their old happy child back again.  It's easier to reverse the problem for younger children than for those who have felt dethroned for many years.

7) You also indicate that you think that the "media have prematurely sexualized " our children today. What are your concerns about this?

Television, computers and magazines are rampant with the sexualization of our children.  Children in middle grades are exposed roughly to environments their parents experienced only in high school and adulthood.  It's a powerful distraction for girls to be thinking about boyfriends, or boys to be thinking about girl friends as early as third and fourth grades, but they are. 

Then there is the adolescent disrespectful attitude they adopt from the media as well.  This makes it harder than ever to teach children in schools who think it's cool to underachieve and fight their parents and teachers.

8) Can you tell us about your approach to reversing underachievement using the acronym ALLIANCE

My ALLIANCE acronym is a very shortened form of my TRIFOCAL model for reversing underachievement.  It emphasizes the main ingredients in reversing underachievement for an over-empowered child who has been dethroned and it's counterintuitive.  Actually, sometimes parents and teachers would like to just shake these kids who think they know everything and argue relentlessly.  They'd like to punish and punish them until they finally understood who was in charge.  The ALLIANCE emphasizes the importance of adults privately allying with them, listening to their needs, helping them develop their strengths, negotiating with them, but holding firmly to agreements.  Once these children are engaged and confident again, they can learn to capture positive attention and instead of always protecting their fragile self concepts, they can grow and risk challenge again.

The ALLIANCE acronym follows:

Ally with the child privately about motivations and pressures.

Listen to what the child has to say,

Learn what the child is thinking.

Invite Opportunities for recognition of child's strengths.

Add challenging and interesting curriculum and activities.

Nurture relationships with respectful and appropriate role models.

Create specific consequences, firmly and reasonably if the child doesn't meet expectations

Emphasize Effort, independence, realistic expectation s and ways strengths can be used to cope with problems.

(from, Parenting for High Potential, March 2007, p. 10 )

9) You cite Dr. Sapolsky's work "Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers" and he seems to feel that difficult experiences basically prepare and in his words "inoculate people and increase their resilience" Why is this important for parents, and indeed ALL children to understand?

Dr. Sapolsky actually demonstrates the neurobiology of resilience.  There is actual physical change in the brain as children learn from difficult and challenging experiences and he compares it to vaccinating people for resilience.  He uses Sept. 11 as example of how our society will respond to another terrorist attack because of our first experience--not that we'll love it, but we'll have learned to respond better. 

Parents and teachers often want to protect children from losses or challenges, are fearful for them and help them avoid difficult work if children are fearful they can't accomplish it.  Children build their sense of self-efficacy and true confidence only when they accomplish tasks they didn't believe they could possibly accomplish.  When they make excuses and avoid work they don't learn what they could do if they put forth real effort.

10) You indicate that gifted kids need to be resilient to endure "nerdhood". How can parents and teachers help them do this?

"Nerdhood", as unpleasant as it may be during adolescence, builds independence and selectivity about friendships.  As former governor of NJ Christine Whitman pointed out, her separateness in adolescence gave her the strength to be strong in politics when at the end of the day, you may indeed feel very alone.   There are many successful adults who viewed themselves as nerds in adolescence.  Of course, there are also successful happy adults who were popular in adolescence.  Parents and teachers can reassure these kids that having a few good friends is more important than the popularity that is so admired in middle and high schools.  In my article I included a story about John Mather, a recent Nobel Prize winner in astrophysics.  I knew him when he was a child, and in his own words, he states he was a nerd before the word was invented.  He had a wonderfully supportive family who helped to get him through "nerdhood" and in the long run, he hasn't seemed to have suffered. (You may want to put the story about John in here.)  We've been in touch with recently and hope we can get together in the near future.  What a shock to find him as a Nobel Prize winner.  Very exciting.  

Published April 11, 2007