Delia Stafford and Vicky Schreiber Dillare the authors of " Alternative Certification: History, Handbook and How-To" published by the Haberman Foundation. http://www.habermanfoundation.org

Both educators werevital contributorsduring the initial stages ofdevelopmentof Alternative Certification Programs. Vicky Dill was employed by the Texas Education Agency and Delia Stafford directed the first school based alternative certification program in America at the Houston Independent School District. In this interview, they respond to questions about the current and paststate of the art of alternative certification.

1) As we approach the beginning of another school year, schools still seem to have trouble finding teachers. Is the current teacher shortage getting worse?

Delia Stafford:

In my opinion it is not getting worse. However, there is a criticalshortage of teachers willing to work in urban schools. The challenges are enormous in the inner city schools. There are large numbers of at risk students that struggle everyday in America to even make sense ofthe value of an education and teacher turnover exacerbates the problem. The math and science teacher shortage is real and will be on-going. However, there should not be a teacher shortage in any district with the option of alternative certification available in 47 states.

Vicky Schreiber Dill:

Research indicates that teacher shortages are chronic; little has changed over the past decade.The challenge is not only recruiting teachers into the classroom, but persuading them to stay. Says respected scholar Richard Ingersoll:

One approach that has worked is to screen into urban and hard-to-fill vacancies teachers who are keenly aware of the challenges they will face.These will undoubtedly be mature teachers who are "there for others."That means that, in some cases, compensation, union rules, the need for power, and the desire for "vocation" trump the simple data-based formula of other programs.How do you keep a child in school? Build relationships! (http://cehd.umn.edu/Pubs/Researchworks/checkconnect.html).

2)      How does alternative certification fit into the picture?

Delia Stafford :

The alternative certification programs can be a perfect fit for the shortage problems that exist in the largest school districts across the states as well as in rural America. Alternative Certification, for twenty years, has been a viable resource available to districts that need mature teachers and programs have now been accepted in almost every state, Carefully crafted programs could be the answer…however, these programs require hard work in planning and implementation with consistent oversite at the district level. The clients, I.E. the students, are the recipients of altcert teachers. They deserve great teachers, not a "toss in" at the last second! It is unfair to analtcert. teacher who is lead to believe he/she can learn enough to do wellin any classroom in America by attending a 20 day training program. I agree whole hardly with the travesty idea as Vicky has describe in this interview.

Vicky Schreiber Dill:

What has happened to alt-cert programs is a travesty.At one point, all alt-cert programs were approved by the State Board of Education.Grade point averages, the process of acquainting the teacher with the NCLB, the curriculum, the crucible of being there for the child and connecting the child's strengths with the curriculum, were paramount. At this moment, Lawmaker-inspired "deregulation" would be synonymous with ignoring the outcomes for children and supporting profit-producing entities with virtually no oversight. Children have suffered.When the state drops its interest in preserving the right of children to have a good teacher and gives preferential treatment to entities that wish to make a profit, 'deregulation' is a synonym for selling out.I'm sorry if this is offensive; I'm just telling the truth.

3)   What should colleges and universities be doing in terms of alternative certification?

Delia Stafford:

In the best of all worlds, universities should partner with a specific school districtswhere the exemplary classroom teachers in each of the districts are allowed to provide the majority of the hands-on training and supervision. The university faculty would offer specific 6-12 hours depending on the discipline to be taught by the cadre of alt-cert teachers, and the districts would provide the remainder of the training. The university in collaboration with the program directors in the public schools should conduct research projects with the directors of the alternative certification programs to determine the most important factor of all: student achievement and where improvements should occur. The changes over the years have not necessarily improved the altcertconcept, and in many instances, the alternative certification initiative has become less than effective; more specifically, programs have not provided enough lead time for training and evaluation to ensure that the alt-certnovices do not practice theircraftof teaching on children, especially the under-resourcedand neediest youth in schools. Flexibility and planningtogether with districtsis key to providing exemplary training for alternative certification teachers.

Vicky Schreiber Dill:

Partnerships are always the answer.In producing good teachers and principals, the method called "collaborative inquiry" is a key.In collaborative inquiry, professors, alt-cert program sponsors, and prospective teachers all work together to find out where a school needs improvement and, as a university and a school district, improve the setting for students at risk. Data analysis is followed by the use of scientifically based research to identify areas of critical need in the individual school.Neither school districts nor universities have the answers if they work in "solo;" if they work together to link theory and practice and to put "sweat equity hours" on all certifications, new principals and teachers, as well as university professors, will learn: there are activities and processes that produce better parent participation; better support from central office; and better results for students, particularly on those sadly- pivotal test scores.

4) Some students return to college for "alternative teaching certification" after many years of being in the corporate or business world. How can we best prepare them for the scholarly work of either undergrad or graduate courses?

Delia Stafford:

I am not convinced that graduate courses are the best avenue to bring prospective teachers in to the profession. In education, a teaching certificate is awarded at the undergraduate level and if trainees so choose later, they may pursue a masters in teaching and learning. Taking grad courses, writing papers, and doing research for a master's degree while learning to teach is very hard work and not in the best interests of the children. Prospective teachers should be working with exemplary classroom teachers gathering interesting activities and learning how to create projects to help children in their classes meet the objectives of a curriculum. Currently, the high stakes focus on the test has reduced school, too often, to test preparation and teacher education to preparation for giving a test.

The bestway to prepare teachers in any and every alternative certification program is insist that from November until September, the school officials manage the training calendar. A full 9 months prior to stepping into the classroom to teach is minimal. Select candidates early and use a research-based interview.

Trainees should keep their day jobs until the process is near completion and they have been chosen by a principal to teach in a specific school. Training should be conducted, for example, every Monday night and the schedule of training altered to meet the needs of the trainees and the school teaching staff. A nine month calendar of events should be planned for every part of the alt-cert program with close supervision and assistance for the novice alt-cert teacher when the teaching year begins.

Selection is more important than training. If you get the right people, the training will be put into practice when the alt-cert intern arrives in the classroom.

Vicky Schreiber Dill:

I would add to what has been stated here, it is interesting to note that, "Teachers with a master's degree or some other form of further qualification do not appear to achieve significantly larger test score gains. Overall, teacher characteristics found in the departmental payroll database can explain only a small fraction of the variance in teacher performance." (http://andrewleigh.com/?p=1464).It should not surprise us that additional degrees do not make any significant gains in students' test scores. Teachers and students who are mature don't care about test scores. What they care about is whether or not this individual is ready to face life; answer the question, can that person care for another?Can they get a job that has health benefits?Can they sustain a family? A master's program doesn't answer any of these questions. A course called "Advanced C&I" will yield a student little or nothing in terms of helping an urban youth in poverty reach equilibrium and gain motivation. Meaningful work and a mentor who really cares will help to keep kids from dropping out.

5)   Is there too much emphasis on theory in educational preparedness or should we be focusing more on classroom management?

Delia Stafford:

Theory certainly has a place in teacher education when paired with practice. Theory to practice is a non-negotiable when working with students; classroom management skills don't just come "naturally". There is theory attached to all management of student behavior, social skills that create good learning communities, lesson planning for student success, and teachers understanding the importance of building relationships with students that will promote engaged learning of the specific discipline is a major key to success of the students as well as the teacher, especially for the alternative certification intern teachers.

Vicky Schreiber Dill:

It's not an "either or."Theory and practice are both equally important.When individuals or programs start bartering one against the other, results start to show how this is foolishness. The huge controversy right now over whether to re-regulate teacher certification speaks to this issue:initially, alt-cert programs were designed to show how theory becomes practice by delivering both simultaneously. Unfortunately, competition for prospective teachers' dollars has meant that teachers become practitioners with very little theoretical background.Yet, without reflection, how can they grow? Who can shepherd a teacher into professionalism better than a trained mentor who has put theory into practice? The best teacher preparation toggles back and forth meaningfully between theory and practice and both are indispensable.

6) Have we gotten far away from the original intent of alternative certification?

Delia Stafford:

I would say, yes. Originally, in the Houston Independent School District, I directed the first school basedaltcert. program;it was designed during a teacher shortage in the late eighties. Altcert teachers were required to take 12 or 6 hours ofcollege credit during internship, depending on their desired certification ;that was the state law. All college classes were conducted during the summer evening sessions at the university. Programs were closelymonitoredby the Texas State Department of Education for compliance on each phase of the program;entry requirements; a degree from an accredited institution ,GPA 2.5, overall and 2.5in the 24 credit hrs qualified them to teach a subject. (example24 hrs in physics), withon-going training provided by districts, lead time to understand the craft of teaching,and a portfolio developed in the classroomsduring the final phase of the program. The Texas Education Agency monitored every phase of our work. Classroom observations and teaching by the prospective teachers were conduct during summer school classes at the local schools in HISD. Further, it should be noted, the HISD candidates did not practice on children in September when school began; they were capable when they entered the classroom. But practicing on children is allowed today in programs in which twenty days of training, one summer session and or one test (in Texas you can take a test and be certified) or utilizing on-line courses with no promise of a real teaching job. The children have become the victims of the adults who make and enforce laws regarding education.

Vicky Schreiber Dill:

I would "second" that opinion.The intent of the original alternative certification legislation was to create carefully crafted, data-based programs for adults for whom returning to college for certification was not a practical possibility. The intent was clearly not to see how fast you could get through a program. If teachers were not succeeding in the classroom; if students were not learning or teachers were not managing them kindly and firmly; if the teacher could not produce a log of self-critiquing reflections on their own practice or if the teacher could not show a portfolio of successful classroom experiences, they were not certified. In the Houston Independent School district, Texas' first program, all candidates were required signed an AT WILL CONTRACT, which gave the district program the option to release altcert teachers without negative negotiations. They could be and were counseled out if they were not improving on the job. Trained mentors in a regulated ratio of trainees-to-supervisors were non-negotiable. Such a carefully scrutinized and crafted program is a whole lot of work!It was nothing in the early years for program directors around the state and supervising teachers to put in a 90-hour work week ensuring that every alt-cert teacher was very well prepared.Alt-cert directors were on the carpet all the time;I was employed at TEA we had to prove that adults with degrees could progress through a highly structured program of pedagogy and practice and become capable of communicating the science or math they utilized in business and industry. It was a very successful endeavor in the early years. But, as deregulation progressed, this structure began to break down and competition was not necessarily healthy. What is needed for students is not always easy to ensure in an on-line environment or summer training. I feel very sad that many early supporters of alt-cert now believe it is a detriment to children (see dallasnews.com, July 13, 2008).

7) Periodically states seem to put a lot of money into alternative certification and then seem to back off- what is going on politically?

Delia Stafford:

To my knowledge the funds are readily available from the USDOE.

With the Transition to Teaching grants, probably more funds now than ever before are being accessed by districts and universities. Hundreds of programs are now available at universities, online, school districts, service centers, private for profit programs, all vying for monies.

Interestingly enough, the first program in Houston ISD, the district paid all training expenses for the alt-cert teachers, now it cost a small fortune to participate nationally. Alternative Certification has always been a political football because the university programs were threatened by their loss of the teacher education monopoly. Today, the universities own at least half or more than half of the alternative certification programs according to stats from NCEI in Washington, DC.

Vicky Schreiber Dill:

Deregulation has been a theme of recent administrations, particularly the Bush administrations. We see it in education, the mortgage industry, and international trade.But for captive audiences, such as the children of Texas, market forces do not always serve well. I would say that if the state department of education wants high-performing programs, they will have to visit them, continually provide resources to keep scrupulous data about student achievement, the drop-out rate, and teacher retention by program, and be willing to shut down programs that do not serve children as the taxpayers should demand.

What question have I neglected to ask?

Where did the National Association of Alternative Certification get its start?

Delia Stafford:

Twenty years ago the Texas Alternative CertificationAssociation, TACA, consisting of the directors of the alt-cert programs along with the directors at the Texas Education Agency decided to go NATIONAL. We did and today, NAAC is a thriving organization.Next year, 2009, San Antonio, Texas, will be the host site for this nationally recognized locus of activity in alternative teacher certification. We hope all current and past alternative certification teachers will make an effort to attend; that is, if we have enough substitutes to fill the vacancies for a day or two!

Another question we might ask is, "Where is the research on student achievement for the hundreds of alt-cert programs now in existence?" Are we allowing "all who will may teach" regardless of the AYP of the students these teachers serve? If children in alt-cert classes are not learning, something may be amiss in the current process of preparing and certifying their teachers, and if that is not the reason why they are low-performing, with value-added data collection, we should at least know why.

Vicky Schreiber Dill:

Last question:"How can this nation stop repeating the cycles of reform and "re-reform" when it comes to teacher education?"At one time, the process was so highly regulated, it was nearly impossible for adults changing careers to enter the teaching profession.Now, it's rather "easy," and quality is an unknown.Why don't we base our model on research, keep good data, pay our teachers what they deserve, and insist on high standards for 100 years and see what happens?

Published July 21, 2008