Michael F. Shaughnessy
Eastern New Mexico University
Portales , New Mexico 88130

Recently a book entitled "If She Only Knew Me
"was published. This book, written from an at-risk child's perspective, is poignant and powerful. Every teacher in America would benefit from reading this book. It is a must read for all school principals, teachers, counselors and university students thinking of pursuing a teaching career. It will challenge, encourage, convict, and convince the reader using the simplistic views of a 9-year-old boy. His picture is priceless and his comments are thought provoking. Although the title of the book is " If She Only Knew Me", the book could just as well have been titled " If He Only Knew Me" or " If Teacher Only Knew Me". All too often, we look at education from the eyes of the principal or teacher or administrator or parent. Perhaps we should take a long hard look at education from the perspective of the student. In this interview Jeff Gray and Heather Thomas respond to some questions about the book and their experiences.

 

 

 

 

1) You have recently co-written a book about the importance of the student teacher relationship. Please tell us about it briefly

JG :After 14 years of public education experience (8 as classroom teacher and 6 as principal), I have observed some of the best teachers in the field and at the same time I have observed too many marginal teachers.  As principal at Foust Elementary School , I had the privilege of working with teachers that truly care about the wellbeing of their students.  This group of dedicated professionals go beyond the teacher contract and have truly invested themselves in the lives of children.  It isn't uncommon for me to be out in the community and see students in a restaurant with a teacher or at a high school ball game; some teachers invite the children to their homes during the holiday breaks.  There are also teachers at the school that spend most of their weekends at school planning or tutoring students...without pay.  I have enjoyed the privilege of visiting many schools, listening to principal colleagues in Kentucky and other states and many have the same problem...the basis for this book.   Simply put,

1.  There are too many teachers in our public schools that have performed poorly for years but there are no consequences

2.  These same teachers also continue to have students that score poorly on state assessment compared to same grade/school counterparts

3.  Come to work and leave work as the contract dictates regardless of the situation

4.  Refuse to change teaching practices even if what they do is failing...It's the kids fault   

HT : I've served as the School Counselor at Foust Elementary School for a little more than five years.  In this time, I, too, have had the privilege of working with some of the greatest educators in the business.  I am forever thankful for my colleagues who routinely go far above the call of duty to truly know and love each of their students.  We live by the powerful words of Dr. James Comer, "No significant learning occurs without a significant relationship."  If She Only Knew Me examines student-teacher relationships from a child's perspective.  We believe that every child has a story, and we hope that our book will inspire and challenge educators to discover the unique potential in each of their students.  Some educators have the misconception that their only responsibility is to teach reading, writing, math, etc. . . . I disagree.  As educators, it is also our responsibility to nurture our students' souls.  It's simple, students won't care what you know (and want to teach them) until they know you care (about them). 

2) What prompted you to co-write this book?

JG :Simply put,

1.  There are too many teachers in our public schools that have performed poorly for years but there are no consequences.

2.  These same teachers also continue to have students that score poorly on state assessment compared to same grade/school counterparts.

3.  Come to work and leave work as the contract dictates regardless of the situation.

4.  Refuse to change teaching practices even if what they do is failing...It's the kids fault   is usually their excuse.

5.  I have personally witnessed and heard numerous stories of teachers that humiliate and alienate children in their classrooms.

6.  Teachers that refuse to see a child as a person and are only committed to teach content and not meet students where they are functioning.

HT :

From a counselor's perspective:

1.   We want to inspire and challenge educators to discover the unique potential in each of their students.

2. As educators, we must look beyond our students' eyes and outer wrapping and discover the unique gift inside.

3. Students are the very reason we (educators) exist.  Each student brings unique potential and experiences to our classrooms.  If we fail to acknowledge and honor our students' individual potential and circumstances, we fail our students.

3) Tell us about the co-writer, and how you got involved with this person.

JG : Mrs. Thomas is the school counselor at Foust Elementary.  I had the privilege of hiring Mrs. Thomas five years ago.  Mrs. Thomas has made a significant difference in the lives of many, many students as she truly loves her students and works to assure that their needs are met.  She has also impacted hundreds of other students indirectly by providing 1/3 (135) of our students with a mentor.

HT:

Jeff is one of the most amazing people I've ever met.  He has no hidden agenda . . .he loves kids and wants them to be successful.  I worked with Jeff for five years, and I have seen first-hand the hundreds of lives he's impacted.  He has had to exercise a great deal of courage and endure a great deal of criticism in order to ensure that our kids received the education they deserve.  I am honored that he invited me to be a part of this amazing project. 

4) In the rush to "leave no child behind" are we leaving a lot of kids behind emotionally?

JG: Personally, I am grateful for NCLB.  In saying that, I am aware of several schools that are truly working day and night to meet the goals established through the federal guidelines of NCLB. I applaud them for making tough decisions and refocusing the faculty on research-based practices and higher expectations. Some schools are making progress and others are struggling. It's amazing how much fun kids can have in the classroom if they know that their teachers care about them AND engages them in meaningful work.   

HT :

We cannot use NCLB as an excuse to abandon our students' emotional needs.  It's our responsibility to teach the whole child.  When we take the time to nurture our students' emotional and social needs, they are more willing and able to accomplish our academic goals.  You simply can't have one without the other.    

5) Your book talks about "bad" teachers. While I would not say I had "bad" teachers, I certainly had some mediocre teachers, some disinterested teachers, and some teachers who were more interested in their after school coaching duties than teaching. What does this say about the "state" of American education?

JG : Recently, I had the privilege of viewing the "Perfect Storm" by a man by the name of Daggett.  You just mentioned the three types of teachers that are the real purpose behind writing this book.

  In my first year as principal, a teacher told me that I was expecting too much of the students/teachers.  This particular person told me that "the kids had tough home lives, were hungry, and needed love."  My response, "Love them enough to teach them and maybe they'll have a shot at getting out of poverty."  What I ask you is this: Would you be satisfied in having your own child in this teacher's classroom?

HT : It says we must never lose sight of the real reason American education exists: our students.  Our students are our customers.  Every student deserves a great teacher who is willing to provide the best customer service. 

6) Are there really "bad" teachers or are there teachers who lack administrative and parental support?

JG : Both.  Unfortunately there are those in leadership that will not hold teacher accountable for poor results. There are leaders that won't make tough decisions on behalf of kids because they want teachers to like them.  Some leaders succumb to pressure by the community.  On the other hand, there are teachers that have gained tenure and it would take a serious felony charge to terminate them into today's school system. Imagine this, an employee at any financial institution or for that sake any other business that continually performs poorly, year after year, without being terminated.  Imagine, a business man/woman treating their customers like they are insignificant.  Imagine a doctor not using the most updated research in treating patients.  We have given way to mediocrity in the most important business in America , public education.

HT :

Both.  (I'm going to comment on the parental support.)  We cannot blame our students for their parents' lack of support and interest in their education.  This is just another excuse, and we must move past it.  We cannot hold our students responsible for their parents' behavior or lack of education.  It is our responsibility to teach our students where they are and with whomever they have (or don't have) in their lives.  We can't alter a student's past or his family situation, but we can ensure that his future is much brighter. 

7) Teachers often send messages to students. What seem to be the predominant messages that good teachers send and bad teachers send?

JG : Good Teacher:  "I care enough about you to meet you where you are and I will do everything in my power to ensure that when you leave ___grade that you are ready for what comes next!"

Bad:  "This is my classroom and you will uphold my rules and I will teach you the information as I see fit and I will not make exceptions for anyone."

HT : Good: "I care about you, and I'm going to help you be successful.  I'm going to look beyond your eyes, clothing, and skin and into your heart.  You have great potential . . . together we'll discover it."

Uninterested, uncaring: "This is my classroom and my rules.  I make no exceptions: I don't care about your circumstances.  If you do well in my class, that's great.  If you don't do well in my class, it's your own fault."

8) Jeff, nationwide there are many teachers on waivers, teachers teaching out of their field and uncertified teachers. Are these the "bad" teachers that you refer to in your book?

JG : "I believe that there are several great teachers that have chosen to jump from the business world into public education.   We do need people with real experience teaching students about the real world.  I also know that there are exceptions, some will and should return to the private sector.  Others are the answer to the prayers of their school administrator. 

HT : Uninterested and uncaring . . . these are far worse than uncertified!  (Our book addresses our deep concerns about the teachers who refuse to care about their students.)   

9) Where can interested principals, administrators and others get a copy of your book?

JG : The book is available at www.rocketpublishing.net .  The book can also be purchased by calling Trent Thomas at 270-686-8318.  Purchase Orders and credit cards are accepted.

10) What would an average kid say to a teacher who seemed disinterested?

JG : Nothing. Kids do not confide in those in which they do not have a relationship. 

HT : Amen!  He/she is not likely to confide in that teacher and not likely to perform to his/her greatest potential in her classroom.  Students work hardest for those teachers they like and trust and for those teachers with whom they have a significant relationship. 

11) What should teachers be doing? Mentoring, encouraging, supporting or educating? (or all of the above)

JG : I hire teachers that love kids more than content and teach the children entrusted to them as well as their own children.   I expect that teachers will meet each child where they are on a daily basis.  There is nothing that bothers me more than to see a class of 24 children on the same page in the math book on a daily basis.  It is ludicrous to think that every child would be on the same page.  However, this type of instruction is typical across America ...translated...teachers don't know how to meet the individual needs of students or don't care enough to spend the necessary time meeting the needs of their students.

HT : All of the above. 

Mentoring: A nurturing one-on-one relationship with a positive, caring adult can change a child's life . . . and it might even save a child's life.

Home Visits: Can't seem to understand why Robert never completes his homework, why Rachael is always so tired, why John seems so angry?  Go to their homes . . . once you've walked through the front door, set on the couch or at the kitchen table, and talked to mom (or grandma, or step-dad) you will most likely find the answers (and compassion) to your greatest student mysteries. 

Supporting and Educating the whole child:  A+ educators teach the brain with the heart in mind.

12) What question have I neglected to ask?

Is it possible to have a valid excuse for not meeting NCLB and/or state accountability? 

JG : No...There are schools across America , where miracles are taking place every day.  I know, I've read story after story after story regarding the success stories of schools that are considered disadvantaged.  Foust is the example nearest and dearest to me...Let me tell you some important facts regarding Foust Elementary School in Owensboro , KY.   The schools has approximately 50% Caucasian and 50% minority, 7-10% homeless, 75% of our students live in single parent homes or with grandparents, 95% free lunch. The school neighborhood is home to three government housing complexes, and illegal drugs are a threat to the livelihood of our community.  The good news, our students posted a 97.5 attendance rate for the 2004-2005 school year, second highest in the district...highest in the district 2003-2004.  The students have met state goals in Reading and Science for the 2014 school year and the schools test scores are competitive with the more affluent schools in our district and region.  Foust was recently recognized in Newsweek Magazine and the London Times, published in Performance and Assessment by Douglas Reeves, and featured on KET (Kentucky Educational Television) regarding the schools work with disadvantaged students. 

HT : Absolutely not.  Foust is a perfect example.  We're confronted on a daily basis with a number of challenges.  But we see them for what they are: challenges, not barriers.  Our kids deserve the best, and we're dedicated to giving them just that . . . and nothing less.